Farzin Farzad

Farzin Farzad (Association for the Defense of Azerbaijani Political Prisoners in Iran - ADAPP): Farzin is a native Azerbaijani speaker who spent the early years of his life in Iran and Turkey. He graduated in 2005 with a B.A. in political science from McDaniel College with a concentration in international studies and a minor in cross-cultural studies. He then went on to earn a graduate degree in International Affairs from American University in December of 2008. His regional focus was the Middle East, particularly Iranian security. During his undergraduate and graduate studies, Farzin held positions in research and analysis with professors at Johns Hopkins SAIS and Columbia University. As a research intern at the East-West Center, he researched for and helped edit a book on nuclear weapons security in Asia. During the summer of his graduate program, Farzin studied the political history of the Gulf States at the University of Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates. After his fellowship, Farzin wrote: “Ironically, I am more assertive person. Being a 'Peace' Fellow toughened me up.”



Asgharzadeh Interview (Part 2)

12 Aug

Me: Many say that if Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, is a reported Azeri, how can racism still exist in Iran? And the same could be said about Mir-Hussein Mousavi, the “unofficial leader” of current opposition movement in Iran, who happens to be an Azeri. How can you explain this?

Dr. Asgharzadeh: The supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s father was an Azeri from the city of Khameneh, but his mother is Persian and he himself was born in the Persian city of Mashhad. A few weeks ago, on the occasion of The Mother’s Day in Iran, a group of children and adolescents were visiting him. And in this visit he talked about his own childhood, his upbringing, and his parents, identifying his mother as a Persian and a “Hafez-Shenas” (someone well-versed in Hafez, the great Persian poet). So his mother tongue is Farsi but he has picked up some Azeri words from his Azerbaijani father which he occasionally blabbers–for the sheer purpose of demagoguery– when he visits Azerbaijani cities or when Azerbaijanis visit him. Interestingly enough, the leader of current opposition movement, Mir-Hussein Mousavi, too, is an Azeri-Turk, born in the Azerbaijani town of Khameneh and migrated with his family to the capital city of Tehran at the age of 12. Nevertheless, it would be a mistake to assume that, in the context of Iranian politics, ethnic lineage plays any role in disturbing Iran’s dominant national identity as modeled on the identity of the Persian ethnic group.

People like Mousavi and Khamenei are assimilated Azerbaijanis to whom the local Azeri vernacular refers as “Manqurt”: i.e., someone who has forsaken his/her own roots and embraced the identity of the dominant to the exclusion of his/her former identity. Put differently, a “Manqurt” is someone who assumes someone else’s identity and at the same time fights against the “former” community from which he or she has originally come. As such, it would be a mistake to presume that Mousavi’s ascendency to power will bring about any improvement in the condition of his Azerbaijani community, just as the role of Khamenei as the supreme leader has not done so. If anything, the dominant Persian group uses the examples of individuals like Khamenei and Mousavi to deny the existence of racial/ethnic discrimination in the country, employing these assimilated figures as decoys to masquerade its domination of non-Persian communities.

Conversely, the elite and assimilated members of non-Persian communities whole-heartedly support the dominant group and its racist/exclusionary policies vis-à-vis the marginalized communities. These “Manqurts” include elite members of parliament, heads of local and provincial apparatuses of government, mayors, governorates, university presidents, local educational authorities, heads of police stations and military units, and so on and so forth. In terms of representing the rights of local communities, the “Manqurts” not only fully support the repression of human/ethnic/linguistic rights of their community members, they even go farther than the central government’s oppressive policies in an attempt to show their loyalty to the state which in turn guarantees their positions of power and privilege. This process could be viewed in recent Iranian election, where the choice between the Persian candidate Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and the Azeri candidate Mir-Hussein Mousavi, to Iran’s Azeri population was clearly a choice between Scylla and Charybdis.

Me: Does Racism exist among Iranians outside of Iran?

Dr. Asgharzadeh: Yes, it does and its degree depends on their socialization, their age, etc. Usually, it is not that prevalent among younger generations particularly if they grow up in multi-racial environments. However, it is more rampant among the older generation who has come with its cultural and linguistic baggage from the old country. Among members of this group- many of them highly educated- you’ll see a lot of references to Aryan race, Aryan blood, superior civilization, superior language, and that sort of things. Anti-Semitism, anti-Arabism and anti-Turkism are also very prevalent among them.

Particularly, in recent years we have witnessed the emergence in Iranian Diaspora of a group of hooligans and, if you will, intellectual thugs, who run around and blatantly attack whoever talks of Iran’s Azerbaijani or Turkic population, a population which numbers over 20 million. Whoever defends the rights of this particular community, even the scholars who do objective research on the situation of this community in Iran, and even those members of the community who self-identify as Azerbaijani-Turks are attacked by these racist thugs who, using various pseudonyms, label these individuals as “pan-Turkist” and so forth. In my book, Iran and the Challenge of Diversity, I have given some samples of racist literature produced in Iranian Diaspora.

Me: Let us turn to your book then. When was it written and what is it about? Can you explain its core arguments?

Dr. AsgharzadehMy book Iran and the Challenge of Diversity: Aryanist Racism, Islamic Fundamentalism, and Democratic Struggles, was published by Palgrave Macmillan in the summer of 2007. Basically, the book explores a number of important questions such as: How is the racist order produced, maintained, and perpetuated in contemporary Iran? How do the acts of othering, misrepresentation, and racism take place through works of literature, history, religion, and other textual/discursive means? What role does language play throughout the processes of ‘otherization,’ foreignization, cultural annihilation, and assimilation in contemporary Iran? What are the ramifications of Aryanist racism for Iran’s non-Persian ethnic groups? How do the victims of this racism engage in acts of resistance against the ongoing racial/ethnic oppression? What role can the intellectuals, scholars, social activists, and the education system play in helping to eliminate racism in Iranian society?

The book, then, seeks to establish the existence of racism and its detrimental ramifications for social, political, economic, and educational developments in Iran. It examines the role of Europe, and the West in general, in the origination and development of modern racism in Iran. It also explores possible mechanisms, ways, and sites through which racism can be eliminated in Iran, for instance through empowering the marginalized languages; providing space for the expression of indigenous histories; reforming the education system, etc. In so doing, the book deconstructs the dominant Euro-centric ideas of nation, nationalism, nation-statism and Aryanism in an Iranian context. It implicates the dominant members of Farsi-speaking community in their capacity as writers, poets, and intellectuals in producing, reproducing, and maintaining unequal ethnic, cultural, and linguistic relations in the country. At the same time, it provides a space for marginalized communities in Iran to articulate their condition through their own voices, in their own languages, and by way of their own literatures, as opposed to being exclusively represented through the dominant Persian language and literature. It redefines and rearticulates the question of citizenship based on equal cultural, linguistic, and human rights of each citizen, each collectivity, and each community. This rearticulation challenges the dominant notion of citizenship, which has granted the ownership of the country to certain group(s) based on their ‘Aryan-ness.’

Me: What was some of the backlash you have received as a result of your work and your book? Have you yourself experienced any direct racism?

Dr. Asgharzadeh: Well, to expose Aryanist racism in Iran, to talk about ethnic, linguistic and cultural rights for the non-Persian communities, these are taboo topics among Iranians, regardless of whether they are inside Iran or in Iranian Diaspora outside, and regardless of whether they are a part of the current Islamic regime or a part of its opposition. This is an act of daring, a speaking of truth to power. And when you do that, the power reacts. This reaction takes many forms, from the blocking of your publications in Iran-related and Middle East-related academic journals to attacking you in conferences and seminars to threats of getting you expelled from your job and so on and so forth.

Recently a progressive Canada-based Persian newspaper named Shahrvand interviewed me on the events leading to the tenth election and its aftermath in Iran. In response to one of the questions, I compared the current political regime in Iran to the Apartheid system in South Africa and said that, in order to defeat the current fascistic regime in Iran, we Iranians could learn a lot from the struggle of South Africans as well as from the Civil Rights Movement in America. Soon after the interview was published, I received a threatening email from an “academic,” asking me, among other things, “How dare you compare the Aryan race of Iran to Black Africans?” The email concluded that if I had a single drop of Aryan blood in me, I wouldn’t disgrace “the Aryan nation of Iran” by suggesting that they should learn from “Black Africans.”

I suspect this email was coming from a group who has published a 300-plus page monologue to refute and reject my “false book.” Published on a well-known racist website, this monologue starts by an epigraph in Persian, depicting me as a “Mongol demon” with a Dracula face and long nails, “blood constantly dripping from his fingernails”… I think you can imagine how the rest of this brilliant critique unfolds. Suffice it to say that the only connection between my work and this “review” is my name that the anonymous authors remember to throw in every now and then. Other scholars such as Dr Reza Baraheni, Dr Brenda Shaffer, Dr Zia Sadrul-Ashrafi and courageous Azerbaijani human rights activists such as Ms. Fakhteh zamani have been regular victims of this group.

This group even managed to pressure the editors of “Ethnologue,” an international website pertaining to world’s languages, to reduce the size of Iran’s Azeri population from about 23.5 million to 11 million, and this, despite the warning that many scholars and human rights activists from the Azerbaijani community had given to the Ethnologue editors regarding this group. In an open letter to Ethnologue, these scholars complained about the aggressiveness of some ultra-nationalist Iranians abroad and expressed their hope “that the editors and researchers of Ethnologue will not cave in to various ultranationalist bullying, and will not allow Ethnologue’s scholarly reputation to be tarnished by ideologically motivated hyperboles.” Despite this, their prediction came through in Ethnologue’s latest issue: a whopping 12 million reduction in the number of Azeri-Turks in Iran!

Me: What in your opinion is the solution? Do you have any policy recommendations for government structure?

Dr. Asgharzadeh: I think we have to expose this racism and bring awareness to the world community about it, like the things that you guys are doing and ADAPP is doing. This is a first major step. In the course of recent elections, the government authorities emphatically made it clear that in the Islamic Republic of Iran “issues pertaining to ethnic minorities are considered a matter of national security” to the extent that even the regime’s own majles/parliament could not have any say on these issues. What this means is that in Iran, ethnic minority related issues are dealt with by the regime’s security agents. They are not even considered as normal social and political issues–let alone as human rights issues. Thus, we cannot expect much from the Islamic regime in this regard.

Me: What would Iran look like without racism?

Dr. Asgharzadeh: We have to remember that, what “blood” was for German Nazism, “language” is for Iranian racism. So I will leave you with this thought: when I see that millions of children belonging to Azerbaijani, Kurdish, Baluchi, Turkmen, Arab, Lur, Bakhtyari, Gilani and other communities have schools in their own languages, that will be a good sign towards the creation of an Iran without racism.

Me: Thank you very much Dr. Asgharzadeh. Your words have been insightful and inspiring.

Posted By Farzin Farzad

Posted Aug 12th, 2009

30 Comments

  • Yek Irani

    August 12, 2009

     

    Dear Farzin
    Again very interesting. By the way I know what happened to ethnologue.

    A) I wrote them a letter simply asking for their source and they said they did not find it. I then showed them CIA factbook. Mazdak Bamdadan another writer wrote them again and asked them for their source. They said it came from private conversation and they will look into it.

    Other than that, thats it. There is no big controversy. Note my article on ethnic statistics on Iran. Ethnologue also uses Johanson (it cites a source). Asgharzadeh falsified even the book of Ervand Abrahamian with regards to statistics.

    I am gladed I defeated the Turkish nationalist in this front by asking a simple question on their soruce.

    B)

    I wrote the 300 page response to the Turkish nationalist nonsense of Asgharzadeh (claiming Turks existed in the area 6000 BC) and I never made him blood dripping Mongol and etc. That was a poem about Iran and not Asgharzadeh in the introduction. The whole thing was written by one person (I know cause I wrote it) and was fairly easy to refute. It is written by someone that is less than 30 years old (me). Not anyone else. I have put it in several websites (I sent it to the Kaveh Farrokh website as well and the link is given below).

    Other than that, Asgharzadeh’s book and writings are dimissed as fringe and no serious Iranian scholar takes it seriously. Even most Azeris do not want to be associate with such Turkish nationalists.
    He says:
    “I suspect this email was coming from a group who has published a 300-plus page monologue to refute and reject my “false book.””

    He is wrong. My 300 page plus crushing of Asgharzadeh’s book was sufficient and I do not need to steep so low. If indeed such an email exists it could be from a loony.

    C)
    Asgharzadeh:
    “If anything, the dominant Persian group uses the examples of individuals like Khamenei and Mousavi to deny the existence of racial/ethnic discrimination in the country, employing these assimilated figures as decoys to masquerade its domination of non-Persian communities. ”

    Can these dominant Persian groups please stop employing Khamenei! We Iranians do not want him! Thank you. As per Mousavi, just because he does not think like Asgharzadeh, it does not make him less of an Azeri.

    By the way Shahriyar’s faviorate poet was also Hafez and 90% of his work is in Persian. He was a Hafez shenas too, so that makes not an Azeri! So he is a manqurt too? How about all the poets in the Maqbaroat al-Sho’ara of Tabriz (contains 50+ poets). None of them wrote Turkish, they are all manqurts.

    Farzin you can tell Asgharzadeh, that one person (me) wrote to ethnologue (one simple paragraph about their source and no pressure), wrote the 300+ page review, and etc. There is no organized group , just simple person who is against pan-Turkist falsification of history and racism and takes from his own time to standup to a whole compex of pan-Turkist racism (gunaz t.v., turkic government supports, adapp and many other organizations being organized.

    As per languages being thought in Iranian schools, there is always a common language which will be Persian. Not every language in the world (6000 of them) is a teaching language or has developed such capacity. The issue is not about human rights, but simply using language as a dividing factor.

    Good luck

  • Yek Irani

    August 12, 2009

     

    But this was excellent. :))

    These people think that the people responding to them are some big organizations with big bucks!! 🙂

    Or that a group would take his book seriously and write a response.

    In reality, it is just one or two people (me, Farrokh and possibly Matini) living in the West passionate about history. Our only weapon too is the truth of history which is their greatest enemy and nothing more.

    And the truth is that Persian and Iranian Languages and cultures is far greater than just Iran and it is a civilizatrion which even the Turks to an extent became subdued to it. The Turkish nationalists will do their best to dissassociate Iranian Azeris from this civilization (even Shahriyar who wrote 90% of his work in Persian will become Manqurt to them). Persian language has been unifying factor for Iran for 1000 years as well and the Turkish nationalists have a problem with it. I have no problem with teaching Turkish in Iran, but the issue is more about administration than human rights (e.g. Arabic in France).

    The stuff emanating from Asgharzadeh, Zamani etc. are so far left (and the same time ultranationalistic) that even the bulk of Azerbaijani population in Iran (no more than 20%) will listen to it.

  • aft

    August 12, 2009

     

    Dear Farzin ,
    The reality in true life may be different from the perspective of diaspora . I know you may hear many challenges to nationhood of Iranian nation outside of Iran , but let me also give my view from inside of Iran and as an Azari Iranian .
    By name calling and labeling others as “Mankurt” or like so , the reality will not change .
    We (Azeri Iranians) does not think like Mr asgharzadeh , and his views are not applicable to us.Learning the local language in Iran is not different with USA , and no governmental budget is given to teaching local languages , and that does not means racism and like so : Do they pay for Spanish language in USA ? Did we used our local writing language as a medium for communication in history ? Is there any difference between Azeri Iranian and Non-Azeri in cultural grounds? Is language the only defining parameter for nationhood ?

  • Yek Irani

    August 14, 2009

     

    Dear Farzin,

    Aft is completely correct. Spanish is not the language of education in the USA. It is a language that is offered to be learned but not as the language of math, science, engineering, history and etc from 1-12. And for example “Persian” or “Azeri” is not the language of education in Canada, US. Neither is Arabic the language of education for 6 million Arabophones of France.

    So two completely different things. In Iran there are also private classes and etc., but Arabic and English (sometimes French) are thought in Iran’s school system. Perhaps instead of arguing against the common language of Iran (Persian which shows you are into disintegartion of Iran and don’t want to learn the common historical language of Iran), you could have asked for Azerbaijani Turkic to replace Arabic or English for those who ask for it in Iran’s school system. This way you might have even won my support. But that is not what you are asking for, you are asking basically that there should be no common language in Iran and Iranians should be segregated based on language. That is an impossibility. What Asgharzadeh states is completely unrealistic. For example in Tehran, one cannot build 1-12 grade schools for each dialect and language. For example a Kurd should not go into a separate school than say a Baluch or Khorasani or Isfahani or Mazandarani.

    As per census, again another source I found is a great Russian Encyclopedia (2004) which states 10.5 million. But the census done by the American organization “Terror free tommorow” has a margin of error of 3.5%. And besides that, the number of people living in Azerbaijani provinces (taking out half of west Azerbaijan) is 7 million. You can 4 million outside of this (including Tehran). But there is no way there are 23 million out of this area, which you and Asgharzadeh claim. Also you accuse the Iranian government of not taking a census but when they do, you state it is unreliable. However the provincial population is completely reliable. Dozen of Western sources are reliable. The census with 3.5% error margin done just two months ago is 100% reliable (done by a Western organization).

    Asgharzadeh falsified numbers and distorted the book of Abrahamian and couple of other sources. A scholar’s job is to look at all available data instead of cherry picking. This shows dishonesty on his part. People that cherry pick are liars.
    And furthermore it is Mr. Asgharzadeh who counts out the likes of Khamanei, Mousavi and etc as Manqurts, then believe me the number of “real Turks” in Iran will not be even 1 million. 95% of Iranian Azeris will be classified as Manqurts! 🙂

    “Your comments are Aryanist, pan-Iranist garbage. All you seem to talk about is the onslaught of Turks on Persia and use that as a pretext for limiting human rights on non-Aryans”

    Two different things. I brought up that comment after seeing general racism on your part, Asgharzadeh, Zamani and Turkish nationalists in general. Okay if pan-Turkism is good (according to you), then so is pan-Iranism. So you can’t call one garbage. If Alireza Nazmi Afshar (whom Asgharzadeh refers to) claims all of West Azerbaijan (which is now predominantely Kurdish due to higher Kurdish birthrate) and says “greater Kurdistan” is a myth, then so “greater Azerbaijan”. But how come ALireza Nazmi Afshar is referenced but say other pans are wrong. So the matter is dishonesty here.

    The difference is that pan-Turkism is responsible for the genocide of 1.5 million Armenians, 1 million Assyrians and 500,000 Greeks, Dersim ethnocide (70,000) and etc. I can say the same about your comments. However, the issue is that you have generalized the majority population of Iran. That is why I will state again, if it is battle of “who did worst to who” (Aryans (Iranic speakers) or Turks), Turks making the bulk of the Mongol massacared 1/3 to 1/2 of Iranian speaking populace. It doesn’t matter if you apologize or etc. I am not making it personal or blaming you. I am taking a long view of history and if we do, and compare it to apartheid in South Africa (an example you brought up), then it was the 80% Iranic speaking population which was controlled by a Turkic minority and had to lose its lands ans see it Turkified. Luckily the natives (if we say blacks or red Indians) stopped the Turkicization of Iran. A good portion of it was the Persian language which to a good extent stopped turning Iran from Turkey.
    So the matter is simple. If we are talking about X did bad or Y.. we can look at history.

    I am against falsifiers of Iran’s history (Asgharzadehclaiming Turks are present 6000 BC), those that Attack the heritage of Iranians (Asgharzadeh’s nonsense against Ferdowsi, Zoroastrianism, Cyrus) and Turkish nationalism (responsible for genocides of Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks) promoted by the likes of Asgharzadeh under the guise “being victims of racism”.

    Asgharzadeh is clearly a Turkish nationalist (what makes it disgusting though is to claim being a victim where-as Iranian Azerbaijan was historical Iranian land way before nomadic Oghuz tribesmen and Mongols massacared the local Iranian inhabitants) and Iranian Azerbaijan part of Iran which belongs to Iranian civilization foremost. I have no detail on the two names you brought, but I do not believe what you state just like I do not believe 6000 BC as Asgharzadeh claims, there was Turks in Iran. The government of Iran is corrupt, but so are Turkish nationalists. So a person needs to know the full detail before judging.

    However, as you can see, unlike what Asgharzadeh claimed, there was mass movements in Kermanshah and Kurdistan recently supporting the internal stuggle of Iran. Iranians will achieve the right form of government with democracy, but believe me, Iran has survived many different enemies and it will not be harmed by Turkish nationalism from 5% of 11-14 Turcophones in Iran.

    You state:
    ” Can we expose that Arabs and Turks face the butt of most if not all ethnic jokes in Iran because they are non-Aryan?”

    There are jokes about every village and city. Isfahan, Rasht, Qazvin, Mashhad, Yazd, and etc. are all Aryan-speaking. The jokes about Arabs are actually not negative. There is also Polish and Italian jokes in the USA. That is not racism. Of course you need justification for having an organization like ADAPP so the two angles you guys use are:
    1) There are jokes about Turks
    Response: Jokes about Turks have been in Iran as soon as Turks stepped into it. Even among Ottomans, there were many jokes about them. There are many jokes about all groups in Iran.
    2)
    Azerbaijani-Turkish is not the teaching language in Azerbaijan.
    Response: Azerbaijani Turkish can be thought privately. Neither is Spanish the teaching language in the US, nor is Arabic in France, nor is Turkish in Germany. However unlike Turkey and republic of Azerbaijan (both heavily loved by pan-Turkist t.v. gunaz t.v.), Azerbaijani has much more government support (local t.v. and radio) and is open for publish (barring political writing). One can compare this to say Talysh, Lezgin in the republic of Azerbaijan and Kurdish in Turkey. If Azerbaijani-Turkish was banned (a lie promogulated by some of you folks), then Khamenei would not speak it in public. Kurdish was actually banned in public in Turkey.

    And thats it. That is all the execuses you have to promote division in Iran. And that is why the majority of Iranian Azeris will not buy it because if there is political suppression it happens all over Iran and has nothing to do with language.

    And here is a neutral Iran expert.
    William O. Beeman who is not an Iranian, pan-Iranist, Aryanist or whatever term you want to use:”Asgharzadeh’s (and Shaffer’s) highly questionable writings would merely be a weird little footnote in the history of the Middle East if it were not for the fact that they were being politicized ”
    “Both Asgharzadeh and Shaffer’s work have been cited by Michael Ledeen and other neoconservatives–especially at the American Enterprise Institute and Daniel Pipes Center for Near East Policy, bent on regime change in Iran. Some of Asgharzadeh’s assertions about the “mythology of Iran” are truly bizarre–for example, his claim that the term “Aryan” is an invention of Western Orientalists–when it is easily found in classical Greek and Latin writings; or that the city of Persepolis was never completed. ”

    So that is William O. Beeman. Not me.

    However I will again state the reality for you. The problem of Gunaz t.v. (with Kurds and Armenians too and not just Persians), Asgharzadeh, Beraheni, Zamani and etc. with Iranians(Aryans=ethno-linguistic group and not race) (recall Zamani’s letter which she deleted it exposing another myths of human rights) is not about human rights. It is about Iranian civilization in general which is not dominatable by Turks. Turks today lack a comparable civilization to that of Iranians and thus they will try to forge one (like Asgharzadeh claim on Elamites, Sumerians and etc.). However, they are free to do what they want. Believe me, even if 100% human rights for all Iranians were observed in Iran, the Turkish nationalists have a deep hatred of Iranians.

    Iran will take all the “Manuqrt” (that is Azerbaijanis who did not lose the sense of Iranianness and heritage despite repeated Turkic invasions, but we will give you Khamanei) and all the Kurds of Turkey, and all Armenians, and instead Turkey/republic of Azerbaijan can take all the Turkish nationalists. You know what would happen? 95% of Iranian Azeris will decide to be with Iran, and we will take a large chuck of Talysh, Kurdish areas (which are Iranians). 🙂

    As per Dr. Farrokh, he is responsible for his own writing, but neither I or him like the current regime. Iranians inside Iran are now currently taking care of the regime, and it is Asgharzadeh’s type who are apologist for the regime by bringing division at this crucial monent. While Iranians are dying in major cities (Kermanshah, Rasht, Isfahan, Tehran, Shiraz..) these people attack Iranian civilization (Cyrus, Ferdowsi..).

  • Yek Irani

    August 14, 2009

     

    Farzin I don’t want to take over your blog.. but as you said, I think we will have to agree to disagree..

    Your not a bad guy though. Take care.

  • Farzin

    August 15, 2009

     

    Yek Irani,

    It is troubling and a waste of my time to continue this dialog if you keep referring to me and Zamani and Asgharzadeh as pan-Turkists and fools. If you continue that, I cannot allow your posts to continue on this blog. I always respect various opinions, but do not respect being called a fool.

    1) I have never in the entirety have said Pan-Turkism was good and I am quite frankly sick of being labelled a pan-turk. I merely said, there is a difference between pan-Turkism and feeling kinship with Turkic speakers across the world. Pan movements seeking to unify large groups of people are not good for solidarity of states and I whole-heartedly agree. I thought we buried this a while back.

    2) Pan-iranism is no different. If you look at pan-iranist websites, their aim is to promote unity among fars speakers and it is a racist movement. The flag of the pan-Iranist party shows an unequal sign. This means that according to pan-iranists, there is no other equal race on earth. If you look at pan-iranist websites, much of the material is adapted from Nazi nationalist symbols. That is because the pan-Iranist movement gained ground during the reign of Reza Shah, who was a documented Nazi sympathizer. The British and Russians forced Reza Shah to abdicate the throne in favor of his son because they feared that Reza Shah would ally with the Nazis. Reza Shah modeled his governance structure after Nazi Germany, and this very well included his nationalization reforms. These reforms brought racist sentiments as it completely demonized all conquerers of the Iranian lands such as Oghuz Turks, Arabs, Chenghis Khan, Tamerlane, Alexander the Great. This is the history that people read today. It forces minorities in Iran to feel ashamed of who they are and their language because of centuries old conflicts.

    3)Telling Azerbaijanis to join Turks and allowing Kurds to come to Iran is just like saying “if you don’t like it, you can leave.” Nobody’s going anywhere. It is the civil right of those who do not like the progress of a system to change it. That right is being systematically violated in Iran, and this is what Fakhteh, Asgharzadeh and I are trying to change, not promote pan-Turkism. Your feeble attempts at trying to destroy a human rights movement by accusing human and civil rights activists as pan-turk separatists does not help the situation. It only creates division. This is particularly the racist mentality that we are trying to overcome.

    4) I have never in the entirety of this blog mentioned that Turkish should be the official language of Iran, so please stop reiterating this. I advocate a federal system in Iran just as the system in the Russian Federation. In the Russian Federation, the official language is Russian and each federalist republic and oblast can vote to have a semi-official language within their respective regions. This allows for schools, media and cultural activities to be maintained in these regions. I favor this system for Iran. I don’t think we should allow any language to succumb to extermination and that includes Persian. Farsi will be the official language of Iran, however linguistic minorities will have the choice of creating language schools for their own native tongues. At this point Azerbaijani language instruction is banned at the private level.

    5) Before Reza Shah, the Qajar dynasty respected all nations of Iran. It was a loosely governed system which would presently be equal to a federalist state such as the Russian Federation.

    6) I am not trying to argue historically who did what to who. While I enjoy reading history, this is not a blog on Iranian history. It is a blog on human rights and why minorities in Iran are making these requests. I am presenting the Azerbaijani human rights movement and what it hopes to achieve. For the sake of human rights, what happened to Persians 1000 years ago does not justify the inhumane treatment of minorities today.

    Quite frankly your posts are beginning to get a little infuriating because I have to keep arguing against your accusations. You keep copying and pasting what you see from kavehfarrokh.com under the pan-Turkism section. Your entire structure for arguments is based on me being a pan-Turk and harboring some ulterior motive for Iran. No. Absolutely Not. That is final.

  • Yek Irani

    August 15, 2009

     

    Farzin I do not want to talk history, but you again make points without sources.

    You said:
    “At this point Azerbaijani language instruction is banned at the private level.”

    That is a lie. I brought sources already that Azerbaijani language instruction is not banned. It has been thought even by pan-Turks such as Sadiq Mohammadzadeh and Dashgin. I also have pictures of private Kurdish school from Marivan. It has a sign “Private Kurdish summer classes- register”. Either I am lying or you. I will let the readers judge. I will send the picture and information to several websites(including Dr. Farrokh’s and hopefully he will put it up).

    On Nazism:
    Nazism and pan-Turkism is much deeper than Reza Shah and Nazism. Even the person Asgharzadeh claims is responsible for the creation of modern Azerbaijani identity (Mohammad Amin Rasulzadeh) was a pan-Turkist and a Nazi sympathizer. Most of the current MHP has its roots in Nazi sympathizers.
    Believe me there are professional books on this:
    Jacob M. Landau. Pan-Turkism: From Irredentism to Cooperation. India University Press, 1995. 2nd Edition.

    There is not a single book on pan-Iranism. Rezashah himself was not a pan-Iranist and he actually was fixated with Ataturk and helped him against Kurds. That was a mistake of his which I criticize.

    The relationship between Nazism and pan-turkism is very detailed. You might want to google it and you will be suprised. There was even a Tatar (Turkic) division fighting for the Nazis from former POWs and encourated by pan-Turks. However, unlike pan-Turkism which is responsible for killing of 1.5 million Armenians, 1 million Assyrians and 500,000 Greeks..that is not the case of pan-Iranism.

    B)
    “These reforms brought racist sentiments as it completely demonized all conquerers of the Iranian lands such as Oghuz Turks, Arabs, Chenghis Khan, Tamerlane, Alexander the Great. This is the history that people read today. It forces minorities in Iran to feel ashamed of who they are and their language because of centuries old conflicts.”

    With the exception of Alexander the Great, the rest of these characters managed a lot of massacares. Just like Native Americans do not necessarily like their colonizers nor do Black Africans (these terms of imperialist/colonizers and etc. are used by Asgharzadeh a lot), you cannot expect Iranians to love invaders either. Persian-Iranian-Aryan Babak Khorramdin fought against Arab invaders and their Turkic troops (Caliph Muta’ism being half Turk). But pan-Turkists lacking a real history try to misrepresent him and make him an Oghuz. What makes the majority of Iranians proud is that despite these conquerers, they kept their heritage. It is up to individual Azeris to want to relate themselves to whatever conquerer or group they want. But this mentality will not change for the majority of Iranians just like Blacks are not going to love the enslavement of their ancestors.

    Also dislike of the mauraders is not something from the 20th century..it is found in history books even in the Pahlavi language.

    C)
    You can say the yogurt is black but it is obvious that anyone that reads Asgharzadeh’s work is confronted with a pan-Turkist racist. However don’t believe me. See what William O. Beeman said below. He is not an Iranian or Turk or something. I don’t want to repeat what he stated. But that is a 3rd party observor and an expert in Iran.
    D)
    You said: “I have never in the entirety of this blog mentioned that Turkish should be the official language of Iran, so please stop reiterating this. I advocate a federal system in Iran just as the system in the Russian Federation. In the Russian Federation, the official language is Russian and each federalist republic and oblast can vote to have a semi-official language within their respective regions. This allows for schools, media and cultural activities to be maintained in these regions. I favor this system for Iran.”

    Good point, but there have been pan-Turks like Reza Beraheni (using the same old cherry picked number) tried to pursue. But I apologize if I said you made such a point. But your point is interesting. That is interesting, but Iran is not Russia. All lands of Iran belong to all Iranians and I disagree with your system. I disagree with ethnic based federation. Russia is a huge country where ethnic groups do not intermingle. In Iran Azerbaijanis have intermingled heavily with other Iranians and what you propose is a surgical division of Iran which will be full of blood. There are many cities with mixed populations in Iran (Urmia, Tehran, and etc.). So that sort of ethnic autonomy does not work.

    However, Azerbaijani should be thought for those that want to learn it based on government funding.

    But Federalism and form governance is an idea that is to be voted on, but not having ethnic federalism (say France/Germany/USA..) does not violate human rights. Federalism (Ethnic based, state based or whatever) has no relationship to human rights as one can have human rights with other forms of government.

    E)
    Farzin:
    “Before Reza Shah, the Qajar dynasty respected all nations of Iran. It was a loosely governed system which would presently be equal to a federalist state such as the Russian Federation. ”

    That is not correct. Qajars favored Turkic tribes over Iranian ones.. example is Qashqai vs Bakhtari and there is host of documentation on this. They favored one city over many cities.
    They also massacared 30,000 people in Kerman and took out their eyeballs. However, one thing you forgot, in the Qajar era too there was one official language. Although the native language of Qajars themselves was Turkic, however the official language was Persian and all correspondences were in Persian. Also the Qajar governed loosely because they were weak and that is why they lost a good deal of Iran’s land as local Khans took over. The governed loosely also was not any sort of federalism, but rather local Khans (most of them Turkic) would each be vying control for a piece of land. It was a fiefdom and not modern Russian federation.

    F)
    I’ll end with this. Sometimes population exchange brings stability (or land exchange). I think the ultimate problem is clash of two sort of nationalism (Turkish vs Iranian). Asgharzadeh, Zamani and etc. represent the Turkish nationalism (William O. Beeman states this with regards to Asgharzadeh) and the other side represents Iranian nationalism. Calling part of Iran as “Guney Azerbaijan” represents Turkish nationalism (you say I make accusations but that is reality that you use this term).
    The problem Asgharzadeh and etc. have is that most Azerbaijanis are still part of Iranian nationalism. Azeris in Iran control more than their fair share of the economy, Bazar and etc. They are represented at all levels (of course these are Manqurts to Asgharzadeh but then again, Asgharzadeh is not a spokeman tfor all these people). They are not discriminated against (and no jokes are not a form of discrimination just like Polish/Italian jokes are not).

    The Turkish language has had an inferior position relative to Persian language in Irans history. That is not the fault of Pahlavids. The amount of work in Turkish language from Iran is not even 1% of that Persian before Pahlavids, again that is not the fault of Pahlavids. Even in the land that is now the republic of Azerbaijan, before it became part of Czarist Russian, Persian was the predominant written and administrative language. This is not the fault of Pahlavids and it was before them. Asgharzadeh is seeking a pure pan-Turkist identity for Azeris based on the model of a Nazi sympathizer(Landu) Muhammad Amin Rasulzadeh. That is why in his book he falsifies history. He even quotes a clown like Pourpirar (do a google search for him) who claims Cyrus the Great, Sassanids and etc. are created by Jews and did not exist. Do you think any serious person will consider such a person unbiased?
    G)
    I am glad you are conversing with Dr. Farrokh. I note that you have called him multiple names here, but Kaveh was man enough to not notice it. As noted you can’t lump all different peoples into “Aryanist” or etc. He has his own opinions.

    Thanks again for not deleting any messages.

  • aft

    August 15, 2009

     

    Well , you said that learning the local language is prohibited in Iran . But that is not true . Government does not pay for education in local languages , but that does not means it actively bans learning in private classes . As there are many local newspapers in local languages and many local TV stations that use local languages.

    The group that Zamani and Asgharzadeh are representing them , does not thinks exactly as you think and say , because they want and ask for teaching Azeri in same level of Persian that is lingua franca of the whole nation (and maybe more than that ).

    Let me tell a story for you about my cousin’s wife in Sarab , that is a Turkic language city in East Azarbaijan Province of Iran. She is a primary school teacher.When we were talking about education , she said that in class room,the children may not ask their questions in Azeri.That made me angry and asked her who ordered that? She answered that’s the parent’s decision and after her first days of teaching and talking in Azeri,the parents wrote a complaint to principal against her for not to talk in local language.The reason is obvious : they think without learning the national language , the occupational future of their children may not be good , and when the teacher does not use Persian in class , that is alike a language teacher that does not learns anything at all and steals from the students .

  • Asad

    August 15, 2009

     

    Dear yek Irani(Dr Evan Siegel?)!
    May i ask u,where are u from?

    I really thanks you and Kave for your jobbs.
    You are best reasens for south Azerbaijani to fight for independent south Azerbaijan.
    Azerbaijani can never get demokrati and H.right if they live in a countery with a group like you(you are very,very big group inside and outside of Iran).

    You say that Dr.Asgarzadeh,Farzin,ADAPP are pan-turks.
    This “pan-turks” take action against turturing , beeting and killing of people in Tehran(green momment).

    You was happy that Ahmadinejad and Khamenei kild and turturd Azerbaijani in 2006 and later(civil right movment).(Shem on you)

    Do you know what is civil right/human rights?
    You think Azerbaijani will live in same countery with such people like you?

    An kas ke darad sad cherag o birahe miravad,begzar beyoftad o binad sezaye khish.

  • Zarin

    August 15, 2009

     

    I can’t help but feel that Dr. Asgharzadeh perpetuates the incorrect, misleading term of “aryan” as a racial category by using it in discussing racism in Iran. The Aryan were northern tribes of north western Afghanistan and eastern Iran who around the time of Zoroaster migrated west, south and east. They are not a race. Those who have racialized this identity as Dr. Asgharzadeh explains in another section did so for purposes of power. Now, categorizing racism committed by the dominant ethnic group as “aryan” racism in an English language forum or Western academic sphere ultimately only evokes the twisted ideology of Nazism. While there may be individuals who may espouse similar racist views, I cannot feel but concerned that using the term “aryanism” or “aryan racism” to expose the racism in Iran, Dr. Asgharzadeh is unintentionally or intentionally being misleading. With respect, if Dr. Asgharzadeh really would like to be fair and balanced, unlike those who choose to be racist against Azeris and other ethnic groups, he should re-consider using the term “aryan racism” to indicate racism practiced by ethnic “persians”.

  • Saeid

    August 16, 2009

     

    Dear Farzin
    So thanks to your efforts
    I should note that 3 months ago I read Mr Asghzadeh.s new book.
    İn his book I faced with some realitrs about fashism and rasicm in Iran.
    try to continue your vaulable efforts and interview with other professors sepecilly in politcal science.
    dont notice to what chauvanist persons write to your blog.

    İt hurere kervan keçer
    Yaşa

  • یک ایرانی

    August 16, 2009

     

    Dear Farzin,
    “You’re saying that the many people who protest and hold slogans that say “turk dilinde madrese”
    which mean Turkish language schools are lying because they exist all over Iran? You’re saying racism does not exist among Iranians?”
    Please do not distort my words or make new claims. You said that private Turkish classes are banned in Iran. I said private classes in Azeri-Turkish are not banned in Iran. Besides variety of internet forums, I will give you a concrete example from a semi pan-Turk site:
    A)
    http://www.danulduzu.20m.com/OyanBuyan/IUT/Xeberler.htm
    _________________________________________________________________From DanUlduzu (Türk Oğlu yetirdi) ___2003/02/20
    دومين دوره کلاسهای زبان و ادبيات ترکی در دانشگاه صنعتی اصفهان
    از روز پنجشنبه(17 بهمن) همين هفته دومين دوره کلاسهای زبان و ادبيات ترکی در دانشگاه صنعتی اصفهان برگزار خواهدشد. استاد اين دوره نيز، جناب آقای دکتر محمدزاده صديق خواهندبود. خاطر نشان می شود دوره قبلی اين کلاسها در زمستان 78 و بهار 79 برگزار شد، اما به دليل پاره ای مشکلات، دوره جديد اين کلاسها تشکيل نشده بود، که با تلاش دانشجويان فعال دانشگاه و نيز همکاری بيدريغ دکتر صديق و همچنين مساعدت مسؤولين فرهنگی دانشگاه، دوره دوم کلاسهای ادبيات ترکی هر دو هفته يکبار، روزهای پنجشنبه و جمعه از ساعت 9:30 تا 12:30 در تالار 7 برگزار خواهدشد.
    Here is the actual teacher:
    http://www.duzgun.ir/salshomar/salshomar.php
    دعوت‌ از سوی‌ دانشكده‌ی‌ ریاضی‌ دانشگاه‌ تبریز برای‌ تدریس ‌درس‌ تركی‌. ادامه‌ی‌ تدریس‌ تركی‌ در دانشگاه‌های‌ تهران‌ و قبول‌ دعوت‌ ‌دانشگاه‌ صنعتی‌ اصفهان‌ برای‌ تدریس‌ تركی‌.
    I have even the syllabus.. among the things that are thought: Fizuli, Nasimi.. and etc.
    B)
    http://azerev.persianblog.ir/
    Private Summer classes held in Maragheh..
    برگزاری کلاسهای تابستانی زبان وادبیات ترکی در مراغه
    اولین جلسه کلاسهای زبان ترکی،ساعت 10 الی 13 روز پنجشنبه 84/4/30به همت دفتر مراغه سازمان غیر دولتی خانه فرزندان آذربایجان برگزار گردید.در این جلسهکه باحضور حدود 30 نفر از خواهران وبرادران در محل هنرستان غیرانتفایی دانشوصنعت برگزار شد استاد دکتر حسینقلی سلیمی ضمن تشکر از برگزار کنندگان این کلاسها با اشاره به آیه 22 سوره روم گفت”خدا در قرآن زبان را جزو آیات خودآورده است واین اهمیت زبانمادری راکه هویت انسان را نیز تکوین میکند را نمایش میدهد”وی در ادامه افزود”وظیفه ملی هرآذربایجانی است که به آموزش زبان مادری اش همت گمارد.
    لازم به ذکر است که اولین دوره کلاسهای آموزش زبان وادبیات ترکی در مراغه با همت سازمان غیردولتی خانه فرزندان آذربایجان (دفتر مراغه)وابسته به سازمان ملی جوانان واقع در خیابان اوحدی-پایینتر از سالن ورزشی شهید رجایی هر هفته ها پنجشنبه ها در حال برگزاری است وبه زبان آموزان در پایان دوره مدرک بین المللی دیپلم ترکی اعطا خواهد گردید

    I know what your response is. You will say “this is not enough”..
    Well my response is : “You intentionally or unintentionally lie about private classes being banned. ADAPP is liar because gulliable Westerners who do not have other sources of news will buy its lies. The Iranian government is inept for not caring.”.

    The teacher of A is of course kind of nuts..he claims 70% of Avesta language is Turkish and Sumerians/Elamites/Medes are Turkish.. In other words a pan-Turk. But he has thought classes in Tehran, Isfahan and Tabriz.
    I also have a complete picture from Marivan about private Kurdish classes.
    So “it is banned” is to put it lightly is a “lie”.

    Now as per the slogan you brought from a guy and claim that is the reason he was arrested, I disagree. I do not know the other side of the story, but I know that I have picture advertisements for private Kurdish classes in Iran. Also if they are involved in political activity (not cultural), and sometimes even hold up separatist falgs.. or etc., then that is a problem they will have with the government. But again I will state private classes are not banned.

    “As per racism existing in Iran”
    No it doesn’t, specially against Azerbaijanis who are supreme leader and have the most clout in the economy. There is discrimination against religious minorities like Zoroastrians, Sunnis, Bahais and etc. And please don’t say “they made some jokes”..so what? They make jokes about whites, blacks, italians, jews, polish, southerners and etc. in the USA and these jokes about regions exist in every country. So that is again a lie.

    As per what Zarin said. Asgharzadeh who claims Turks were in the area 6000 BC and relies upon pourpirar to claim “Persepolis is an orientalist creation” is a manipulator as pointed out by William Beeman.
    Aryan is not a race it is an etho-linguistic group. Most people who are Aryans are from the Medietarian Caucasoid subcategory much like say Georgians, Azerbaijanis, people of Turkey, Greeks and etc.. Diakonov, the writer of the history of the Medes explains it well: “The only correct usage of the term Aryan is for ancient Medes, Persians, Scythians, Sanskrit people, Parthians/Iranian tribes of Central Asia”
    Asgharzadeh is being dishonest as he knows first of all:
    A) There is no Aryan race so there is no Aryan racism.
    B) The Nazis took the concept of Aryan and wrongfully applied to Nordic people. So Iranians by their standard were not “Aryans”.
    Turkic is not a race neither it is a linguistic group. If an original Turkic race is sought, without a doubt it will be Yakut and Uighyurs and Mongolid looking Turks as shown in Persian literature. But today it is an ethno-linguistic group. As per original Aryan race, I do not know if it existed due to the antiquity (at least 3500 years ago with the Mitanni civilization). So is Aryan which is an ethno-linguistic group (Kurds, Talysh, Persians, Baluch, Pashtuns, Zazas, Ossetians…) etc. Asgharzadeh needs sympathy so he tries to connect Iranians with Nazis. Where-as Iranians never commited holaucaust/genocides, Turks have killed 1.5 million Armenians, 1 million Assyrians, 500,000 Greeks and pan-Turkist ideologues (even Rasulzadeh whom Asgharzadeh credits for creating the modern “Azerbaijani identity” (which in itself has no historical proof and hence the need for historical revisionsm as widely apparant in the republic of Azerbaijan and among pan-Turks)…So Asgharzadeh needs ignorant people to think that Indo-Iranians (Aryans) have some relationship to Germanic nordic people in order to discredit Iranian nationalism.
    Thankfully, there are enough smart people such as Zarin to clearly see the deceitful strategy.
    http://advocacynet.org/wordpress-mu/farzin/

  • Asad

    August 17, 2009

     

    Yek Irani!
    Sorry for my english,but learing and examining here too.
    1.This private classes was short period.This links are older than 4 years.

    2.I think you are modern and sivilized person.You say that demonstrating people in 2006 were Pan-Turk.I do’t beliv it,but i imagine that all were
    Pan-turk.
    You can accept that this people”pan-turk” should be kild and torturd?
    Please,minimum be hounest with yourself.
    Are you happy for torturing and killing unarmed people?It dosen’t matter what they say or demonstrat for.Should they die or torturd?
    How they should treated if human rights and demokrati was yours and mine rolls.
    Fascism,etnic and sexual hatred isn’t ideologi.That is only primitiv thinking or mentali disorder.

    Hope we can tru knowlage,human rights and demokrati will live in equality and peace in the world.

    Dear Yek Irani.You are my unknowen brother.you don’t need answer to me.You need only think,feel and be honust with yourself.
    Iran and people there need peace not more hatered.

  • یک ایرانی

    August 17, 2009

     

    Dear Asad,

    Your English is sufficient and I understood what you said.
    My response:
    A) The second link is from 1384 (4 years old), but I am not doing a detailed study and gathering every such a link. However I have a picture less than 1 year old showing signs for private Kurdish classes in Marivan. So if it exists for Kurdish it also exists for Azeri as well.

    Here is a BBC person stating that for 13 years+ they have been teaching private Kurdish classes:
    سيزده سال است به زبان کردی در کلاس تدریس می کنم، در حالی که در کلاسهایم دانش آموز فارس زبان هم وجود داشته است و آنها با رغبت فراوان تأکید داشته اند که من به زبان کردی تدریس کنم زیرا احساس می کردند که میان سایر همکلاسیهایشان تافته جدا بافته نيستند و از اینکه می توانند زبان دیگری را غیر از زبان مادری خود براحتی بفهمند به خود می بالیدند. در شهرهای مختلف مناطق کردنشین ایران حساسیت به زبان مادری تفاوتهای عمده ای با هم دارد به طوری که اکثر شهرهای کردنشین و بخصوص مناطق سنی نشین از اینکه به زبان کردی صحبت می کنند به خود می بالند تا حدی که خیليها این مسئله را نوعی افراطگرایی حس می کنند. در مورد شهر سنندج نیز باید بگویم با تمام احترامی که برای همزبانان سنندجی خود قائلم اما این خود سنندجيها هستند که صحبت کردن به زبانی غیر از زبان کردی را باکلاسی تلقی کرده و مایه فخر و مباهات می دانند. ما به ایرانی بودن خود افتخار می کنیم زیرا معتقدیم که پایه و اساس این مرز و بوم با دستان تلاشگر مردم غیور کرد آباد شده و آن را وطن اصلی تمام کردهای دنیا می دانیم

    Do a search for it.

    However the difference is Azeri is Shi’i..so there is no discrimination.
    A) Bazargan the first MP of the revolution (Azeri)
    B) Mousavi, MP for 8 years, Azeri
    C) Khamenei, supreme leader for 20 years, Azeri
    D) Bazar and economy, controlled about 40% (much more than population) by Azeris.

    The inferior position of Turkish to Persian in Iran has several reasons:
    1) Population of Turcophone is not as much
    2) The amount of work/literature from Turkish up to the 20th century is not even 1% of Persian. Persian naturally became a common language and even the main written language. Before the Russian conquest of the Caucasus, Persian was the main written/literary language.

    However, Azerbaijani Turkish is not banned in Iran. But political expression in Iran, in any language, is restricted. However if you write 100s of books praising the supreme leader in Azerbaijani Turkish, you can be rest assured that your books will be published.

    Also besides these, there are many classes that teach “Istanbuli Turkish” I know it is not same as Azeri Turkish but it is close and if one learns Istanbuli Turkish too, they can easily pickup the other with not much effort.

    Notable is to mention that Shahriyar is called the national poet of Iran. Not for example Ferdowsi, Nezami, Rumi, Hafez, Sanai, Attar, Naser Khusraw, Sa’adi, Khayyam or other real major figures of Persian literature. That is Shahriyar, while an excellent Persian poet, is not in the ranks of these poets. However in Azeri Turkish, he holds a higher place.

    In the end, I do not think the whole side of the story is being told correctly. While the government should be pushed to expand these programs, one cannot say “Aryan racists have banned Turkish completely” in Iran.

    B)

    I condemn torture or etc. and even pan-Turks should have a right to freedom of speech as long as they do not take up any violence or get support from a 3rd country. That is in America, even the KKK has free expression and I believe as long as an organization or group does not commit violence or disorder, they should be free to do what they want. However, in long term though, if anyone does not like the common Iranian identity which bonds Iranian together (and for example brings support for someone like Mousavi in Tehran, Isfahan, Mashhad,Kermanshah, Shiraz,Rasht despite Mousavi being an Azeri) and wants to be a separatist or etc, then I believe they should be traded with Iranian speakers outside of Iran who are pro-Iran (say 2-3 million Zazas in Turkey) either through land/population exchange. But that is my own opinion. This happened with Greece and Turkey, or India and Pakistan. So if there is an inherent incompatibility, then that is the best solution.

    However there have been lots of Iranian nationalists tortured, jailed and killed by the current governmnet: Darius Foruhar, Kurush Za’im, Ezzatollah Sabahi and etc. And of course many other groups. However, if you write in Azerbaijani Turkish 1000s pages of praise of the supreme leader, no one will bother you but will give you a prize. So I believe the nature of the government is not being exposed and rather these fringe pan-Turkist groups connect the government to some non-existent “Aryanism”(misue of this term as well showing lack of education or full of bad intentions)!

    I totally agree: “Iran and people there need peace not more hatered.”

    Well said.

    However achieving peace does not come through distorting history or even modern history and events. When someone says Turkish is banned in Iran, while there are local t.v., newspapers and even private classes, or writes a petition calling Iran “a so called country” (and then deleted it becase it looks bad), or basically distorts history..I have a feeling to be suspicious and they are up to no good.

    I’ll state my position on Farzin again. I have 90% inclination (my good feeling) that Farzin is a good guy, but his knowledge of current events and history is not where it should be and thus he will be (unfortunately) misused. I believe he can be much more effective if he joins a mainstream human rights organizations and fights for all Iranians (ethnic and religious minorities too).

    Finally to Behnam, looks like Farzin deleted one of your message which was full of insults (It didn’t bother me). However, I am not Dr. Evan Siegel, but it is a free country and you are free to believe in whatever you want. So if that makes you happy, so be it.

  • Asad

    August 17, 2009

     

    Dear Yek Irani.
    Thanks for your replay.I really don’t want look after your wrongs.I want have a sivilizaid dialoge based on modern demokrasi and human rights.I try to be hounest with me and with you and without dogmatism.I did wish that you don’t push me to document that you don’t tell true.I think it’s humaliatin to say some one that he is a lier.I hope i am wrong about you.
    I am afraid that many Iranians will be rememberd in history as iranian variant of dr.Karachik or as Milosvic.I trying not to be Azerbaijani dr.Karachik and hope that you don’t want be rememberd as Iranian dr.Karachik
    We must take responsibel to what we say and wriht.We don’t want have a new balkan in Iran.
    I think history will remember you.I really hope that we will remember you as continuer of Martin Luterking or Gandih or Mandella.
    Please,Let oss be hounest with ourselvs.
    Every big movments kan have wrong and extremistic elements inside.
    Let oss compair Pan-Turkism with Pan-Farsism.
    You say all Azerbaijani movment is pan-Turk.Inkl dr.Asgerzadeh,Dr.Barahani,Dr Zia, ADAPP,.. are Pan-Turks,racist and fascist.
    Best sign for fascist is that they don’t care about if lower race or their contra part get killd or torturd.Fascists havn’t empati.
    Let’s see which one havn’t empati,Pan-Fars or Pan-Turk.
    This persons and organization you call Pan-Turk and fascist showed empati for people killd or tortured in green movment in Tehran,Isfahan,Shiraz,..
    You,me and all “pan-Turk” know that there are many pan-fars element in this green movment.But that dosen’t stopp oss(“Pan-Turk”) to show empati for victems in green movment.In your mind Gunaz TV is most pan-Turk media.See how Gunaz TV Show empati http://gunaz.tv/farsi
    Can you show me one really aktiv in Azerbaijani movment who say “Pan-Fars in green movment must be eliminet from root”?
    Please Show me only one.
    What did Pan-Fars when Azerbaijani kild and tortured by Ahmadinejad in 2006?What you did?
    This is from your 300 page note against Dr.Asgarzadeh’s book.
    Page 134 point 5(i couldn’t copi and lim it).In this letter says to Ahmadinejad that he should eliminat this movment from root and you are not sadistifide that Ahmadinejad didn’t eliminat this separatist before and more effektiv.
    If you don’t call this fascism without empati,what you call it?
    Can you show me 1 pan-fars that showed empati for Azerbaijani(wanted mother tonque) in 2006?
    Ok,forget pan-farses,show me one Persian human right defender who showed empati for who died,torturd in 2006.
    You don’t accept that some thing is wrong with persian intelectual?
    Persons without empati are sick according psykologs.
    Do you want tray to help this people?First we must show them that some thing is sick here and then try with terapi.
    If we don’t start with terapi,we will have many persian dr.Karachik.
    We all are responsibel for that we do and that we don’t do.
    We Azerbaijani must work with our community for not get sick idea and you with your community.

    It is late here.I will answer to your other points tommorow,if you want.In your replay are alot of missunderstandings and wrongs in my mind.

  • یک ایرانی

    August 17, 2009

     

    Dear Asad,

    I think I got most of your message and thanks for the offer of a civilized diologue. I do regret I am a busy man. However I will do my best to respond to the most important points you rraised.

    About the 2006 event is because you were cursing at Armenians, Russians, Persians and Kurds. So that is why I do not have sympathy. Also the page 134 is an analysis from an eyewitness (Iranian Azeri) from Maragheh (you can do a google search for it). So one has to put the exact words. However, although I cannot speak for that Azerbaijani-Iranian author, “Risheh kan Konan” can mean simply to dry out separatist movements and he suggest strenghtening national unity.

    So page 134-136 is that author’s (Iranian Azeris) opinion. However,as you note on page 136, no Iranian will support any group that says “Marg bar Armani”(Olum Olsun Armani), “Fars dili, it dili”(Persian language is the language of the Dogs) and etc. (page 136 from the eyewitness account).

    If I see any such slogans in the Green movement, believe me, I would be happy if it fades away and I will be ashamed to be an Iranian. In Iran’s history, up until that point, we never had racist protests.

    Now as per “pan-fars” such a thing does not exist. I checked in google and did not find one real book on this term. It is a term made up by pan-Turks (which does exist). Pan-Iranism does exist but it is no were comparable to pan-Turkism and it is a different movement. The Green movement on the other hand is a legitimate movement and is not racist.

    Gunaz t.v. is also racist in my opinion and its anti-Armenian, anti-Persian and anti-Kurd. You are lucky most other Iranians do not know Azerbaijani, or else they would really have known the true nature of these groups. Of course everyone shows sympathy for the green movement, however you know many times that Gunaz t.v. is racist t.v. They also distort history like most pan-Turks do, when it comes to regional history.

    Anyhow, I do not think we will see eye to eye on any issue. Iran is not Balkans or Yugoslavia neither. However, Turkey or republic of Azerbaijan are fairly diverse and so any redrawing of region will ensure other countries are broken too. I am not too worried about Iran, because as Asgharzadeh knows, there are many many “manqurt”(that is normal Azeris without racism) in Iranian Azerbaijan. 🙂

    To Behnam (or should I say Mr. Asgharzadeh ? )
    You can repeat the same thing, but I am not Evan Siegal. However, the principle of determination should also hold for the Armenians of Karabagh. Once I see you support that right and write about it and propagate it, the rest of us will think about what you said. So lets see Zamani, Asgharzadeh and etc. talk about the legitimate rights of Armenians to separate from the republic of Azerbaijan. After all, unlike what you claim, they voted and 99% wanted to separate. However if there was a vote among Iranian Azeris, you guys will be losers. Lets see Berhani, Zamani, Asgharzadeh and etc. clearly state that Armenians who voted to separate have the right to do so. Once I see that, then I will also think about what you said.

    As for what Farzin said, the name of the country was internally Iran. Dr. Yarshater noted this too. If he needs help understanding this issue, instead of cherry picking, it is better to read the whole Iranica article:
    http://www.iranica.com/newsite/index.isc?Article=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/unicode/v13f5/v13f5009a.html

    And if he needs visual proof, perhaps this Qajar currency can help:
    http://irancollection.alborzi.com/Naseri/images/qajar-10-2.jpg

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://irancollection.alborzi.com/Naseri/images/qajar-20-2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://irancollection.alborzi.com/Naseri/qajar_banknote.htm&usg=__73FRYv02mijGWn6ZiwYRR0wawIY=&h=354&w=312&sz=57&hl=en&start=14&um=1&tbnid=MWVjcy9zRZQ58M:&tbnh=121&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dqajar%2Bbank%2Bnote%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

    Note Dr. Yarshater:1935 the Iranian government requested those countries which it had diplomatic relations with, to call Persia “Iran,” which is the name of the country in Persian.

    You can’t complain too much, because the name of the country in the Qajar era was Persia. See the bank note, it clearly states Iran=Persian. Given the sensitivity you have with the term Persia/Persians, you shouldn’t complain and be happy that at least the name of the country is Iran and not Persia!

    As per the ties of pan-Turkists with the Nazis, there is a chapter on it in Landu. Having ties with Nazis at that time was normal for many countries. Even Palestinians had ties with them. They were seen as against Russian/Britian, who had colonized Iran several times. That the Germans were fascinated by Indo-Iranians, Zoroaster, Old Persian and etc. is not related to Iranians.

    I’ll quote one website:
    “the Pan-Turkist also absorbed Nazi propaganda[30][31]. Nihal Atsiz, a prominent ideologue, advocated Nazi doctrines while advocating a Hitler-style haircut and mustache. Alparslan Türkeş, a leading pan-Turkist took a pro-Hitler position during the war[32] and established close connections with Nazi leaders in Germany[33]. Several pan-Turkic groups in Europe seemed to have maintained ties with Nazi Germany or its supporters at the start of the war, if not earlier[34]. The Turco-Tatars in Romania had cooperated with the Iron Guard, a Nazi inspired organization[34]. Although Turkish government archives for the period of WWII have not been released, the level of contact can be ascertained from accurately German archives[34]. During the early days of the War, publicly and officially, the government of Turkey maintained strict neutrality however there had been official and semi-official contacts[34]. In practice, however, there has been confidential semi-official contacts between both Germany and in Turkey, since 1941[34]. There was also no little sympathy for Germany in Turkey at the time [34]. A ten-year Turco-German ‘Treaty of Friendship’ was signed in Ankara on 18 January[34]. A series of official and semi-official meeting of German ambassador to Ankara, Franz von Papen, and several other German officials on one side and Turkish officials including General H.E. Erkilet, himself of Tatar origin and frequent contributor to pan-Turk journals took place in the second half of 1941 and early months of 1942[34]. Others included from the Turkish were General Ali Fuad Erdem, and Nuri Pasha, the brother of Enver Pasha, who is a romantic figure fore pan-Turkists[34]. While Erkilet discussed military contingencies[34], Nuri Pasha offered the Germans his plans for creating independent states which were to be allies but not satellites of Turkey[34]. These states were to be formed from the Turkic speaking population in Crimea, Azerbaijan, Central Asia, northwest Iran and norther Iraq[34]. Nuri Pasha himself offered to assist with propaganda activities to this effect. However, Turkey had also a fear for Turkic minorities of the USSR and [34] and told von Papen that it could not join Germany until the USSR was crushed[34]. The Turkish government was possibly apprehensive of the USSR’s might[34]. Thus various pressure failed to bring the Turkish government to join the war during the period[34]. At less official levels, emrigrants from Turkic groups in the Soviet Union, played a crucial role in some of the negotiations and contacts of Turkey and Germany. Among these were pan-Turkist activits such as Zeki Velidi Togan, Mammed Amin Rasulzade, Mirza Bala, Ahmet CafarOglu, Sayid Shamil and Ayaz Ishaki[34]. Several Tatars, organized military units of Turkic speakers in Turco-Tatar and Caucasian regions from the prisoner of wars and these joined the war against the USSR, generally fighting as guerillas[34]. Many of them imbued with hopes of independence and several of these units aspired for a pan-Turkic union[34]. The units which were continuously reinforced numbered several hundred thousands of people of Turkic origin[34].”

    All items sourced. More interesting is the fact that there were Turkic units fighting alongside Nazis and believing in pan-Turkism.. So currently Turkish parties in the country of Turkey as well the founder of Musavats in the republic of Azerbaijan had Nazi symapthies and ties.

    However as pointed out, Pan-Turks commited the Armenian, Greek, Assyrian genocides and Dersim ethnocide before 1918. Something you won’t find in Iranian history. Hitler is quoted that “After all who remembers the Armenian” when commiting the holacaust. Infact Hilter and Nazis do refer to the annihilation of natives of Anatolia and thus pan-Turks

  • Behnam

    August 18, 2009

     

    Dear Yek Irani (Dr Evan Siegel)
    No I am not Alireza (Asgharzadeh), I am much older and he is like a son to me; but thanks for the compliment.
    Actually I disagree with Alireza when he says a group of you guys wrote that thing about his book. I agree with you, it was just one person and it was you, because nothing of substance has actually been written in that thing. Like your usual manner you have copied a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff (90% of them from Azargoshnasp site) and put it there under asgharzadeh title. All you have done is to copy and paste and add a couple of loose sentences between the pastes. I was the one who saw it first and I told Alireza about it and I also said that I think I know who wrote this. You see, it so happens that I am a retired Persian Literature professor and when I see different or unusual styles of writing, they somehow stick to my memory. That was your case, because you have a unique way of writing (copy and paste) and a trained professional will detect it anywhere. And I think this is not your fault, because you are a mathematician by training, so your mind is used to some type of linear thinking which comes out in your writing and even the way you argue, full of fragments and contradictions.

    One day I saw you bragging about your PhD in mathematics on an Iranian site. And that was your give-away! I put together your different writings (you see I have nothing else to do these days!) and with a little help from some learned friends, was able to finally track you down. You were thinking you were too clever, huh?! Anyway this is a long story and I am already telling it to my grand children. So I don’t want to take Farzin’s space with this, but one day I may publish the whole story in some Persian journal… Anyway, back to your deceitful life now.

    My friend, you are dead wrong in all your arguments, of course aside from plain lies that you say and distortions that you make. Let me start with your knowledge of Persian. You say, “risheh kan kardan” means ‘to dry out.’ This is a bizarre translation. Now I am getting worried about you translating Ahmad Kasravi’s work. “risheh kan kardan” literary means “to root out.” And if you lived in Iran and among Persians, you would know that in that particular context it would mean “to kill everyone involved and also to destroy their offspring.” But I don’t blame you for this, because your knowledge of Persian is mainly from books. You have never lived in Iran and you are no Iranian. You write Persian ok for a layman, but not well for a trained person! When I saw you writing in Farsi, I noticed right away that it was not a native speaker’s writing. And I have seen you speak Farsi as well, on some America-based Iranian TV. To put it plainly and simply: you suck! So you better stick to your writing and forget about the speaking part; for you see, the Persians will make fun of you if you don’t speak Farsi in standard Tehrani accent! Your knowledge of Turkish (both Azeri and Istanbuli) is great and I admire that. I have seen some of your translations from Azeri sites…

    Well, I see this is getting long, so let me get back to your questions. My friend, of course I do believe in the right to self-determination for all peoples, including the Kurds, Alavis etc in Turkey, and the Armenians in Qarabagh, on the condition that all refugees go back there first. Then they should have a referendum. These values are universal and should be applicable to all peoples. And obviously you don’t know Alireza that well. When it comes to these things, he is much more liberal and leftist than I am. Quite frankly, I don’t think he believes in borders and countries. He is a radical cosmopolitan.
    Please forgive me Farzin, for this long post.

  • Yek Irani

    August 18, 2009

     

    Dear Behnam (and my inclination again is you are who I named and your long explanation gave it away). Not every mathematician is Evan Siegel. I can assure you I am 100% Iranian. I don’t really know Azerbaiaji Turkish or Turkish, but at a very very rudimentary level.

    As per what that Iranian Azerbaijani wrote and I copy & pasted, you or Asad can ask him:
    http://prana.persianblog.ir/post/227/%d8%b3%d9%88%d8%b3%d9%83%e2%80%8c%d9%87%d8%a7_%d9%88_%d9%be%d8%a7%d9%86%e2%80%8c%d8%aa%d8%b1%d9%83%e2%80%8c%d9%87%d8%a7

    The other portions of the article were good and I am not going to censor it. But he is talking about “Jaryaanaat Tazjiyeh Talab raa Risheh kan kard” (to make disappear or uproot separatist movements), if that is his opinion(an Azeri Iranian), then he is free to express it.

    That is a normal feeling and majority of people would want to uproot separatist feelings in that part of the world. I on the other hand beleive that even pan-Turks should have freedom as long as they do not express violent. Because in a free atmosphere, their arguments are so bizarre that it will be defeated.

    But “risheh kan Kardan”(to uproot literally but not necessarily in every context) has several meanings which in the end means to disappear. However it has a violent tone, but then again so were the demonstrators.

    As per my writing, it obviously did its work.
    To show the crazy sources like Shaffer, Pourpiar, 6000 BC of Turks presence in Iran, distortions of statistics, distortion of Ervand Abrahamian!, false statistics (300+ more times investment in Kerman than in Azerbaijan) and etc.

    Lets just face it. How many people (real scientists and not loonies) were you able to convince with Pourpirar, Zehtabi, and etc.? How many universities? None. They had no effect. Now with the advent of the internent and information being on the tip of the finger, it will be even more impossible to propagate lies because mainsteam sites do not carry it. Also if it had not struck a nerve, would have written that angry message that Mr. Farzin deleted (which I wish he did not).

    It was just something I felt as an Iranian I had to do, since I knew no one else would even bother with such piece of emotional and unscientific writing. And of course you are a nationalist Turk, so you will discredit it. But for me, even that 300 pages is not important as I have had much more substantial writings.

    Also here is Evan Siegal’s take on the protest:
    http://www.iason.ws/iran/articles.aspx?id=6
    Evan Ziegel, a historian of the Islamic Revolution of 1979. “But let’s recognize that this project is being amply assisted by Persian chauvinist knuckleheads who are willing to play into their hands.”

    A very totally different view than mine. So your inherent thing is that you found two people that are mathematicians, know history and then you thought they might be the same. That shows your analytical capability. However a mathematician by default can school a sociologist (specially on numbers as I did on Asgharzadeh 😉 ) and hard cold facts. Because when it comes to facts, we get axiomatic and try not to use our imagination to makeup crackpot theories.

    ——
    Dear Farzin,

    The difference between Baluch/Kurd and you guys are that Baluch/Kurd do not say:
    1) Death to Armenians
    2) Persian language is the dog’s language!
    3) Death to Russians
    4) Kurds are immigrants and etc.

    Also calling Iran’s Azerbaijan as “South Azerbaijan” and calling Iran a “so called country” makes things clear for majority of Iranian. So that is why I cannot garner any sympathy.

    I do have complete sympathy for Baluch/Kurds as they have been discriminated against mainly due to their Sunni religion and the reason is that Shi’ism was enforced on Iranians by Safavids and their Turkmen followers.

    But between the racist protestors and the government, I have no inclination here. Because I will never take a side of any protest that says death to Armenians, Russians are enemies, Persians are enemies and etc. At the same time, I do not take sides with an anti-Iranian government (IRI). And my Azerbaijani friends tell me there was not just one or two, but quite an amount of people. Also they told me the protestors would pickout any random non-Azeri and beat him. They also destroyed Armenian stores and etc.

    And Farzin, yes if the name of country was “Persia” like in the Qajar era, then all inhabitants would be called “Persians”. See the bank note I gave you. It says Iran in Persian but Persia in English. However, “Iran” despite its etymology which means land of Aryan, has been used internally by the Turcophone speakers since at least the Safavid era. Its etymology was rediscovered from Middle Persian inscriptions and it is possible that Reza Shah liked that etymology. For example the Safavid Kings called themselves Shah of Iran and their subjects as Iranians. So had Reza Shah not changed the name, you would have had the name “Persian” on your Iranian documents and people would call all Iranians as Persians. Afterall, you keep saying Iran is not the same as Persia, and Reza Shah did change the name!

    It is nice to chat here, but this is not going anywhere.

  • Farzin

    August 18, 2009

     

    Yek Irani,

    Minorities in Iran all face the same struggle. They are disproportionately abused compared the the rest of Iranian society.

    If what you say is correct and Azerbaijanis were shouting those things out of the fervor at hand, then that means that you cannot respect the American civil rights movement whereby many African Americans were speaking out against white American domination and being hosed down for it.

    You also then must have no sympathy for those in the streets chanting “Marg bar Dictator” or Death to the dictator.

    Your sympathy is overshadowed by your blatant hatred of Turks.

  • aft

    August 18, 2009

     

    Dear Farzin ,

    I saw many Pan Turkic sites claim that they ban the Green movement of Iran because they want a revenge from “Fars Nation” (?) ….

    As a human rights defender , what’s your opinion about this groups?

    http://milliharakat.com/articleno545.php

    ( one example among countless many !)

  • aft

    August 18, 2009

     

    As an ethnic Azeri , I have never heard about “Fars nation ” or “Turk Nation” in our language . We say “Filani Fars dir ” that means he is more Persian language : that does not means he is ethnologicaly distinct .
    The racial-lingual differentiation of peoples inside a community is a western idea : In Iran , as an old country , in most occasions , we are not aware of the ethnicity(point of origin) of other peoples and when you ask someone about his identity , he says his town and not language :Sarabli , Ardabili , Esfahani , Shirazi and etc. But never “Fars” … when we use the word Turk , that is a short from of (Turk-zaban) versus Fars (Fars-Zaban) and not a race or ethnicity ; set aside a nation !

    • Farzin

      August 18, 2009

       

      That is an absolute lie. If you ask any person of any ethnic background that is not ashamed in the presence of Persians, he or she will gladly say Turk, Kurd, Baloch etc. There is absolutely nothing wrong with identifying oneself with a particular identity.

      My aim in this blog is to show that Iran is composed of various identities. You can be an Azerbaijani and an Iranian at the same time. The homogenization of Iran is counter-productive to its development. Even before I started this internship, I would say that I was an Azeri from Iran if someone asked for my ethnicity. This was before I had any idea of the current movement. If someone asked from what city, I would say Urmia. Why? Because I refuse to be ashamed of my language, skin and upbringing.

      Minorities in Iran want their stories heard. That article you sent was in frustration for the assault of May 2006. If you read my previous posts, there have been no protests since June 15. That is because the media refuses to cover Azerbaijan and all of our attempts to report on Azerbaijani cities were shut down. There was a disproportionate number of security forces in the Azerbaijani areas than in the Persian areas. Also, yes, Azerbaijanis are frustrated because during the May 2006 uprising, nobody told their story. They were left in the cold by the same people in government who praise the beauty of the Turkish language.

      My goal is not separatism, pan-Turkism or reversely to promote the homogenization of Iran. My goal is to show that ethnic minorities exist and they are struggling for their own identity and rights. I am happy that people are commenting and discussing these issues because it in turn is getting quite a bit of exposure. I hope many in the western world are seeing that Iran is not the Persian monolith that is shrouded by the nuclear issue.

  • Behnam

    August 18, 2009

     

    Dear Dr Siegel,
    I think my job is done here. The readers of this blog by now should have a good idea about your identity and your character. All they have to do is compare your earlier posts to your recent posts, that is, the ones that you posted before I revealed your true identity with those posted after the revelation! I have no intention of misusing Farzin’s site to argue with you. I suggest you too leave Farzin alone and let him do his work. Those interested in your ideas can go and read them here: http://www.azargoshnasp.net/ You have nothing to say that you and your buddies have already not said there. I have given my documents regarding your identity to Alireza and other Azerbaijanis. They may agree or disagree with my conclusions. That is up to them.

  • yek irani

    August 18, 2009

     

    Dear Behnam,
    As I said I am not Dr. Evan Siegal, but you are free to believe otherwise. I could care less. And you can send whatever you desire to whoever you desire. However, as long as Farzin does not kick me out, I will write whenever I feel.

    To Farzin,

    I thank you for uphelding freedom of speech. However, even the message of Behnam should not have been deleted. Nor my message in response to him. I will stop though accusing people of being X or Y.

    However, to your response to me.
    What does saying death to Armenians, Russians, Persians, Kurds and etc. have to do with civil rights and African Americans? Did African Americans also said death to Mexicans (compare to Armenians)! Give me a break, your anaologies are so unfortunate that it is ridicolous. As if Armenians, Russians are suppressing Azerbaijanis in Iran. I am against ethnic chavaunism, but you have found the most ridicolous analogy (that to African Americans and if anything, it is the native Iranic population that can claim to be analogous to Afro-Americans/Native Amernicans rather than the colonizers of Iran i.e. Turks/Arab), that is comparing Azerbaijanis in Iran who are represented at every level with African Americans.
    Thankfully there is enough Azerbaijanis like Aft, Kaveh Farrokh and etc. to standup to pan-Turkists.

    The African-American analogy shows that you have a lot to learn about history. African-Americans were taken as slaves. Turks in Iran came as conquerers who massacared the natives. African Americans were never ruling class. Turks in Iran have ruled, and also make up more than their share in the government, army, economy and etc.

    The saying of “death to Armenians” shows in my opinion that 2006 stuff is tied to other countries that have problems with Armenians. In Iran we never had problem with Armenians.

    Let me end with this, although I have noted it before. I have talked to many Zazas in Turkey, Kurds in Turkey and etc. I already told you my background (although Behnam is free to believe what he wants). In the long term, the problem of Turkish nationalism with Iranians is historical and nothing more. And the issue will hopefully be solved with land/population exchange of Iranic(and I’ll include Armenia here as I consider them an ally that we cannot let the Turks destory)/Turkic adjacent areas and this way both Iran/Armenia will prosper and the Turkey/Azerbaijan. Majority of Iranian Azeris (all those that Asgharzadeh calls Manqurt) will also stay with Iran as well. So this problem of Turkish nationalism will be solved in its natural way hopefully if there are smart heads.

    That is my solution and I’ll leave it at that.

  • Asad

    August 19, 2009

     

    Dear Yek Irani

    You have published a page(page 134) that ordered genecid(against Azerbaijani) who nonevilence protested and wanted there basic humans rights.
    You don’t care about it and don’t want minimum say that you are sorry.
    You know that i many demokratic countery your publishing is a criminal act.
    I used 30 min to find this in your 300 page document.Think how many like this can we find if we read all.
    You think that we can belive that you really care about Armenian or Kurds?

    you say:

    The difference between Baluch/Kurd and you guys are that Baluch/Kurd do not say:
    1) Death to Armenians
    2) Persian language is the dog’s language!
    3) Death to Russians
    4) Kurds are immigrants and etc.
    and
    Azerbaijani friends tell me there was not just one or two, but quite an amount of people. Also they told me the protestors would pickout any random non-Azeri and beat him. They also destroyed Armenian stores and etc.

    Dear Yeak Irani
    I have very well infomation that even not one armenien stores or shops window get heart during demonstrations in Tabriz and other cities.I grow opp in Armenian part of our citiy in Azerbaijan and am 100% for that i say.
    That you saying “destroyed Armenian stores” is dirty lie.
    Can you show one dokument about”destroyed Armenian stores”?It is dirty lie if you can’t prov it.(Agar din nadarid la agal azade bashid)

    Many hundred tusends in Azerbaijani provinces in 2006 demonstrated with out organization.

    A)You know that it can be agents from regime who say som slogens and burn banks and busses(this happened i green movment too,according Mir H.Mosavi).It was only some bandrols in demostrations in azerbaijani citis.Could you see this word in bandrols?In Azerbaijani students demonstration(was more organizaid)you never hear or read such things.

    B)I 2006 it was som smal grupp(Etellat agents act i belive) which told that this tre nations are anemy with Azerbaijani.They didn’t told death.Azerbaijani activist understanded that this words come from agents and you did not heard such words later in movment.
    This nations in last hundred years were not so friendly aganist Azerbaijani and almost all tre have occupat part of Azerbaijan(it will be too long here to document this occupations,Clear exampel: Armenia have 20% of Azerbaijan under occupation).

    Armenians demonstrating in april every year and say death to turks in Tehran(many milion turks live in Tehran).Have you ever published any thing aganst armenian when Armenian say death to one ethnic grupp?I am in generely aganist saying death.

    C)Green movments many leaders telling death for Israil,Russia,Many leaders in green movment have many krime in backgrunds.Use allah akbar and religon as ideologi in movment.Is green movment perfect,but Azerbaijani movment not?
    Green movment learnt unarmed sivil movment from Azerbaijani movment.
    I am almost sure that this green movment can’t give really demokrasi and human rights to Iranian,but i am not aganst this movment.It can give islamic or ayrian demokrasi/human rights and we know well from history that it will end in totalitarism and diktaturship.This isn’t first revolution we do in Iran(about 4 revolution in last 104 years).Azerbaijani don’t want do same misstake again and let ayrianism take over revolution and end it in diktaturship.
    Azerbaijani movments taking more and more international human rights(not ayrian or islamic human rights) as movments ideologi.

    If Khomenis revolution moved back Iran 1300 years,aryanism orienteited revolution will move back Iran 2500 years.

    You all time give exampel from Turky or rep Azerbaijan.I belive that south Azerbaijani movment is independent movment and is in Iran.
    But let me give one example.In Rep Azerbaijani konstitution you can fund that if 30 tusen man sign a petition,they can get federal or autonom stat in Azerbaijan.
    Why 17 years old cuntery is not afraid separatism,but 2500 years(according) old countery(Iran) is so hysteric and getting panic to hear autonomi or federalism?
    You say 90% kurd,Azerbaijani,… love Iran.
    I don’t think that this etnic grupps hate Iran.They hate Aryanism,Totalitarism and fascism.

    You know that Ahamadinejad couldn’t do this crims in Tehran, if Azerbaijan was federal and had power to help Tehran now.As they did i Mashrote.
    Yek Irani,you see that when aryanism oriented in Tehran shoot Sattar khan and don’t give anjoman haye ayalati velayati,it end i totalitarism and 1003 years later Azerbaijan have no possibelity to help those grandsons from get kild,torturd and be sexual humaliated.

    That is the reason why Azerbaijan act as oven demokratic movment and be in coalution with other etnics demokratiks grupp,if we don’t want do same misstake as did in Mashrote and 1979 revolution.

    Thanks

  • Yek Irani

    August 19, 2009

     

    A)

    Asad I am not sure where to start and where to end.

    But this will be my last message to you, since you accused me of lying.

    Let me start with the fact that you accused me of lying:

    http://aramanoogian.blogspot.com/2006/05/azeris-in-iran-burnt-armenian-national.html

    And please do not say I created this weblog!

    Just google the news and you’ll find other sites. Hope you understand why I will discontinue my talk with you.

    But one thing you said, should not go unanswered.

    B)
    You said: “Why 17 years old cuntery is not afraid separatism,”

    LOL! You mean the country that lost 20% of its lands to separatism is not afraid of separatism.

    As per your funny autonomy in the republic of Azerbaijan, Armenians already separated because they can’t stand that pan-Turk country.

    Your backers even destroyed Armenian monuments:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZu2zqFE_gI

    So is the model you have for Iran?

    I am sure if you give the Talysh and Lezgis the chance, they will do the same.

    Infact the country is so fascist that it jails an Iranian Talysh for stating the truth that Babak Khorramdin did not have anything to do with Turks. He actually fought against Turkish slaves of the Caliph and the half Turkish caliph Muta’ism.

    He was jailed
    http://www.anspress.com/nid51166.html

    Then killed:
    http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=106367

    Trust me if you pan-Turks had any sense of decency, Armenians would not want to separate from the republic of Azerbaijan. Just like they don’t want to from Iran. And the republic of Azerbaijan is very scared of its Lezgin separatists and Talysh separatists. And separatism in general (Armenians already did it).

    This was the only Tolishi newspaper and it got banned, its editor jailed, his son was killed in a government car accident and finally he was killed in Mr. Aliev’s jail. As per Kurds, you are not their spokeman. Even me whose family is half from Kermanshah do not speak for a whole people.

    As per what Farzin said, I have an Azerbaijani friend who already has listed all slogans he heard:
    http://prana.persianblog.ir/post/228/%d8%b4%d8%b9%d8%a7%d8%b1%d9%87%d8%a7%d9%8a_%d8%aa%d8%ac%d8%b2%d9%8a%d9%87%e2%80%8c%d8%b7%d9%84%d8%a8%d8%a7%d9%86_%d8%af%d8%b1_%d8%a7%d8%ba%d8%aa%d8%b4%d8%a7%d8%b4%d8%a7%d8%aa_%d8%a7%d8%ae%d9%8a%d8%b1_%d8%b4%d9%85%d8%a7%d9%84_%d8%ba%d8%b1%d8%a8_%d8%a7%d9%8a%d8%b1%d8%a7%d9%86

    Or do I have to find these from your own sites like tribun.com, azadtribun.com and the rest of it?

    “Aryanism” in IRI is a bad joke because “Aryanism” is madeup by pan-Turk cooks and has no academic backing (and by academic I mean not pourpirar/zehtani/asgharzadeh types).

    You can’t compare the Green movement to some angry youths who lack understanding of history and are brainwashed.

    But since you accused me of lying, that ends my conversation with you. And since Farzin is leaving his internship, I feel I have done enough and other readers will judge.

  • aft

    August 19, 2009

     

    “That is an absolute lie. If you ask any person of any ethnic background that is not ashamed in the presence of Persians, he or she will gladly say Turk, Kurd, Baloch etc. There is absolutely nothing wrong with identifying oneself with a particular identity.”
    That’s your personal interpretation . The “identity” is a complex matter and you are pushing to impose your point of view to the independent reality : in contrast of the western national identities (like USA and Canada) , the national identity of the old nations like Iran is not defined by language .Jews , as an old nation ,are from multiple languages and races , but the identifying factor for them is culture – and not language.In new states like Canada , because of lack of history and common culture , the obligatory identifying factor is language(and race) .
    That’s a shallow understanding of idea to limit our view to being ashamed in presence of a Persian language person . The word “Turk” in the conversation that you mentioned , only presents a language , and other factors of ethnic (cultural) differentiation are missing .
    Your point of view is of a person not involved in reality and not presenting the main opinion of Iranian Azeris .
    “My aim in this blog is to show that Iran is composed of various identities. You can be an Azerbaijani and an Iranian at the same time. The homogenization of Iran is counter-productive to its development”
    There are many identities inside a community . The Iranian identity is a mixed one with elements from various cultures , but as a compound material like water that is not simply Hydrogen and Oxygen , but a new one with new properties . In Iran , the national identity is the matrix that contains subgroups of ethnic (and most of religious ) identities and that is independent and integrated .
    “Minorities in Iran want their stories heard. That article you sent was in frustration for the assault of May 2006……, yes, Azerbaijanis are frustrated because during the May 2006 uprising, nobody told their story. ”
    I don’t think the claim of human rights activism is in correlation with promoting ethnic frustration and boycotting human rights movements for ethnic reasons .

  • Asad

    August 20, 2009

     

    Dear Yek Irani

    I told that you will be accused by lying(and dirty missinformation) is you can’t show document
    that Azerbaijani destroyed Armenian stores and etc.

    And let’s see what was your document

    1)you send this link and wanted that i can google news if i don’t belive it.

    This is your link “document”:

    http://aramanoogian.blogspot.com/2006/05/azeris-in-iran-burnt-armenian-national.html

    if you klick it,you read this:

    27.05.2006 13:38 GMT+04:00

    /PanARMENIAN.Net/ Participants of a rally in Tebriz burnt Armenian national flag, fixed in front of an electric equipment store, owned by ethnic Armenian Abrahamian. The owner of the store was beaten, the store was destroyed, reports APA.

    A)News com from PanArmenian(you think they tell tru?)who referer to APA

    B)In APA website i searched many variant of this news,but zero result.Can you maybe search it better and showe me this news in APA?

    C)As you told i google this news and fund only Armenian sites.This was result of google search:

    http://www.google.no/search?hl=no&source=hp&q=Azeris+in+Iran+Burnt+Armenian+National+Flag&btnG=Google-s%C3%B8k&meta=&rlz=1R2GGLL_en&aq=null&oq=

    They are only Armenian sites,but in one result you see this

    Armenian News – CNN TO BROADCAST TRAILER ON ARMENIA – [ Oversett denne siden ]27 May 2006 … AZERIS IN IRAN BURNT ARMENIAN NATIONAL FLAG. Participants of a rally in Tebriz burnt Armenian national flag, fixed in front of an electric …
    http://www.armtown.com/news/en/pan/…/18195/ – I hurtigbuffer –

    Interesting was that if you klick, it’s nothing about CNN and burning Armenian flag ….
    It is about Tourist reklam for Armenia in CNN. please,Check it self.

    Next intressting is that there are many Armenian in Tabriz
    ,but they couldn’t take a photo from this destroyed shop or minimum give adress for this shop.photo and adress aren’t really documant that azerbaijani did it,but they couldn’t minimum show a photo.You can’t fund one independent news agansy who brodcasted this news.

    Isn’t this dirty lie?
    You want with such lies and propaganda justifing killing and torturing unarmed demonstrants?

    In some of this links supose that American’s $75 milion go to protesting Azerbaijani.Israel,Turky and rep Azerbaijan suprting and planing south azerbaijani movment.Lie again and again.
    Lik this link from 2006:

    http://www.regnum.ru/english/648160.html

    Now we know that all that $75 milion and much more gone to persian media(VOA/persian,Radio Farda/persian).
    I think south Azerbaijani media from USA get les than 1% of persian media.
    That is same propotion from other countery(BBC/England,frence,German,Israel,..)
    You know that Turky stoped brodcasting Gunaz TV fram Turksat.
    Rep Azerbaijan is same and have no media for movment in south Azerbaijan.

    Now,we have many document that other counteries goverment suport persians media.
    Now,who is conected with other conteries?

    Dear Yek Irani,Armenian in karabak had autonomi in rep Azerbaijan and had owen schools and…
    You know that Jerevan started separatism with Russians military suport.At that time Azerbaijan was infront of independent movment against Russia.

    Even to day Armenia have military suport from Russian.
    We know that whithout Russia Armenia couldn’t occupate 20% of Azerbaijan and can’t keep under occupation if Russia don’t give military suport.
    This is independesi according you?
    No,this is occupation accordin UN resolutions.

    You jump very fast to other subjects lik, some body died in custedy or som people destoied semetery.
    I don’t meen that everything is ok in Azerbaijan.
    But alltime occupanter are more diktarurs.Dashnaks shooting and killing in parlament in Jerevan.Are they your freedom fighters(killing in parlament)?

    About your video link:
    I am aganst vandalism.If Azerbaijani vandalised,be sure that occupants has done much more.But they have strong lobby in west and Russia.World seeing and hearing occupant ,not occupated

    At the end dear Yek Irani,I can’t have dialoge with you if you missinform and don’t care about that unarmed people get kild or torturd.I think better that you have dialoge with som psykolog/psykiater insted having dialoge with me,if you are happy of others missory.
    Hope you think litle more and learn about empati.

    Dear Farzin,Thanks alot for this blog and good luck in yours efforts for human rights.

  • Asad

    August 20, 2009

     

    “I don’t think the claim of human rights activism is in correlation with promoting ethnic frustration and boycotting human rights movements for ethnic reasons .”

    Gandih,Martin Luterking and mandela were best human rights activister tru suporting ethnics movment againt unequality.

  • aft

    August 20, 2009

     

    “Saying Azerbaijanis are not different from Persians except in language is a completely ridiculous. Azerbaijanis have their own distinct culture and ethnicity that they are trying to re-establish.”

    That’s an interesting point ! When I ask the so called “Identity seekers” (Hoviyat Talab) where is the great differentiating items that you are so concerned about them ? they answer we are re-establishing them ! and they present a mixture of products that are new to our Azeri culture . As an example , they can’t show a mere single paper from a father to a son in Turkish in all history , or a single writing on a tomb , neither in Iranian Azarbaijan , nor in Baku , and they cry for lack of freedom for education in Azeri!
    Our tradition in writing was in Persian , and imposing new system of writing is not ” re-establishment” but “re-creation” and “innovation” .

    “Unfortunately, Iranian society is not a matrix that accepts various cultures and religions. Iranian society only promotes the dominant Persian and dominant Shia religion.”

    Then why in this 1000 years of Turkic dynasties and as you say , more than 50% majority of Turks in Iran , there have been no opposition to such “Persian dominancy” ?!

    Do you think we Azeris in Iran are masochists?! And we were so in all of our history?

    “why not fight to gain equality in Iran? How can you not feel sympathy for members of your own distinct ethnicity….I suggest you go start speaking Turkish in front of a group of Persians and report that they won’t call your language, the language of donkeys. Sen turkce bilirsen?”

    Yakhchi da biliram , but ethnic jokes are not good reasons for a political movement , if it was , the Ardabil’s should make the same move against us (Tabrizi’s ) that make joke for them !
    And again you in Canada is alike Alice in wonderland , knowing not that I do speak everyday with my patients in my clinic in Azeri and no one has ever made a negative reaction in my whole life!!

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